Transcript
This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence (AI) technology.
Jason Altmire (00:05)
Welcome to another edition of Career Education Report. I'm Jason Altmire. And we travel around the country quite a bit talking about workforce shortages and the fact that employers all across the country are having difficulty finding skilled workers, qualified workers to fill very important roles. And often those roles are in the skilled trades, hundreds of thousands of vacancies across the skilled trades. And
We've met so many people along the way who are working hard to try to bridge that skills gap and solve the problem. And one of them is our guest today. He's Brian Huff. He's the CEO of Midwest Technical Institute and founder of that institution and Delta Technical College, which is part of the same system. And we're going to talk to Brian because he has a very interesting background, having been a welder himself before he got in.
to the management side. And he also is a national leader on workforce development and these issues relating to the skills gap and workforce shortages. So Brian, thank you for being with us.
Brian Huff (01:12)
Thanks for having me, Jason. We really appreciate it and we love to get any opportunity we can to champion the trades.
Jason Altmire (01:18)
I think we can start by talking about your background as a welder. I just think it's really interesting that you were doing that work. You fell in love with the profession and and you have now become a national leader in advocating as a result of your founding of these schools and and things that you've learned along the way. So maybe talk about that background, why you got into the school business and how that informs your actions and decision making now.
Brian Huff (01:46)
got out of high school. I went to college like most people, you know, did. And I had no idea what I was going to wanted to do. I I thought I'd just go there and figure it out. And I had gone about three semesters and I was home one summer and really just got a job at a local manufacturing plant for spending money. You know, we were going to do basically whatever they wanted us to do. And one of the le welders had left and they asked me if I wanted to try it.
And I got into it that way and I started getting on to it. You know, it kind of grew on me. And I didn't go back to college. So I really kind of got into it on a lark. But once I got into it, I really ⁓ liked it. And then I went on from there into pipe welding and that whole world. And that's when my eyes really got opened up to just the demand. And the need was so great where we worked. I don't how familiar you are with, you know, the the food processing world.
The Cargills, Conagras, Monsanto, ADMs of the world. And I worked at an ADM plant, and it's just nothing but tanks and pumps and systems and pipes. And they have all the skilled trades there. And a big part of it is welders. The electricians had welders, the mill rights had welders, the iron workers had welders, and of the pipe fitters had welders. So we just saw this tr tremendous need for a school. And it's one of those things where, you know, every time we're
We were hiring people from schools, we were bringing people in and trying to train which is hard on the job to do. And I would just keep saying, Boy, I can't believe there's not a welding school around here. I can't believe there's not a welding school around here. You know, and then the idea comes in and it goes out and it comes in and it goes out. And finally, after about seven years of that, it got in there and stuck. And ⁓ we opened up it was called Midwest School of Welding and Fabricating at that time. And that was over thirty years ago.
And that's how we got into the school business and again been doing it for the last 30 years and really have got a a front row seat to workforce training over that time. And we've, you know, obvious you know we've got into other programs and the schools kind of went different directions, but that's that's the genesis of the whole thing.
Jason Altmire (03:53)
Talk a little bit about the schools. You have campuses in Illinois and Mississippi. So talk about what programs are there, how many campuses you have and and type of students that you serve.
Brian Huff (04:06)
We have six campuses. We have three in Illinois. We have one in Springfield, Missouri. And then we have ⁓ Horn Lake, Mississippi. We always say Memphis because that, you know, people are more familiar with that. And then we're down by Jackson, Mississippi. But we do, we've got mechanical programs like welding, HVAC, electrician, which has been really very busy over the last few years. We've had great growth in that. We do CDL training, but we also have ⁓ healthcare programs. We do medical assisting, dental assisting, medical coding.
we have phlebotomy, basic nursing assistant, and we've even got cosmetology at four schools. So we cut a pretty wide swath across the workforce training ⁓ sector. And that and we're getting into other things. We're actually working on other healthcare programs, but we're also really bullish on the mechanical trades right now. We see that the welding, the HVAC, and the electrician is gonna be in great demand over these next five to ten years.
And we can talk about that, of course, but this whole new age of innovation we're gonna go into, it's gonna require the skilled trades on a massive level. I don't think the country really has any idea, just ⁓ the tsunami of work that's gonna come to put this infrastructure in.
Jason Altmire (05:20)
Yeah, talk a little bit more about that because you think about the data centers that are out there, just infrastructure projects that are being built, the s chip manufacturing that's going on across the country. And it is just overwhelming the amount of construction and infrastructure building that you see. The these data centers, and there are hundreds of them being built around the country, and in the coming years it's going to be in the thousands.
Each one of them is generally bigger than a Walmart supercenter. And some of them are bigger than airports. Literally, there's one being built in Louisiana that is going to be bigger than Central Park in New York when you think about the scale of these things and the amount HVACs you mentioned, but electricity and plumbing is going to be in huge demand. And I know that ⁓ open AI.
just by themselves said that they could use 25% of the country's existing pool of electricians just on their own needs, not accounting for anything else that's happening in the country. So what have you seen regarding the demand that exists and and what do you think the country should do to accommodate it?
Brian Huff (06:40)
Yeah, the demand is it's amazing. You're hearing numbers like the CEO of BlackRock said we need 500,000 electricians, right? And and it's for the very thing, and it's not like they're gonna hire any electricians, but all all those new services and technologies and industries in this whole new age of innovation, they want to invest in, they know have to has to be built. Besides taking a tremendous amount of electricity and the all the electricians and all the skilled trades to build it, but they got to maintain them. And so they're gonna need
We don't really need more skilled workers. We need an army of skilled workers to do the very things you just mentioned. There's gonna be so much work. Well, and just look at the numbers. I think there's ⁓ is it five to seven trillion coming in that kind of investment? President Trump's AI and crypto czar said we need to double America's electrical output. I mean, that's twice as many nuke plants, twice as many coal gasification plants, twice as many natural gas plants, twice as many coal.
Everything we've got, you just take that times two. Just think of the construction it's going to need just to support the data centers, let alone all the construction it's going to take to build them and to maintain them afterwards. So and that's one sector. And now it's a big one, you know, and and really it doesn't really matter what side of the aisle somebody falls on. This is a must thing for America. ⁓ I've heard people say it's it's even more important than the nuclear arms race of the late 1950s, because
We can't be second place in the AI arms race. We have to be first place. I think everybody understands that all this infrastructure is going to be put in over the next five to ten years that requires the skilled trades. I think the was it the CEO of NVIDIA said we need hundreds of thousands of skilled workers in America to do this work. So, and you know, as far as what can be done about it, I think it's way beyond even just the messaging switch.
In the K through 12 public education system, I believe there needs to be a complete 180. I've been telling people that we need to have like an Eisenhower moment in the country. You know, when when President Eisenhower came back from World War II, he was blown away by the German Audubon and their highway system. And he said, you know, we've got to do that here. When he got elected president, that's what he did. And you, you know, you think about everything that we drive on was built basically over a 10-year period.
The late nineteen fifties through the nineteen sixties. Every now and then there's a new expressway. Every now and then there's a new on-ramp. There may be a new overpass. But we're essentially building on the infrastructure that was done from this mammoth project. You know, think of all the engineering, all the manpower, all the heavy equipment, all all the work that went into doing that. And we need the same kind of can ⁓ effort in the education system.
And ironically, they both have to do with Germany. ⁓ no, Germany's got that V E T system, the vocational education training system. One third of all their secondary graduates, like what we would probably call junior high, enter into that V ET program. And then they learn the trade for two years. And then when they're age 16, they go to work with an employer, or as how they put it, in the company. And then they stay in the company until they graduate.
And then when they get out of there, they either work for the company or they go on to another or they go on to advanced training. Fifty one percent of all of Germany's workforce comes out of that V E T program. So what we need, like I said before, we don't just need more skilled workers, we need an army. And for that to happen and to have all the the skill level and the people here that ⁓ can do those jobs, we're gonna need a wholesale change in the in the public education system. And we're real I really believe we need an effort like that. We
Jason Altmire (10:22)
We
use the example of Sputnik, kind of similar to what you were talking about, also during the Eisenhower administration, when the Russians were first able to put a satellite in orbit. It was a wake-up call for the country and it was an embarrassment for the country. And
The Congress, working with President Eisenhower, decided to completely overhaul the nation's education system to refocus it on science and math and engineering and the things that were needed to catch up in the space race. And of course, it led to the moon landing twelve years later and and all the scientific breakthroughs that were a result of that. I think we're at a moment like that in this country as it relates to the skilled trades. So
You've outlined some of that and and what we need to do in your experience in talking about this, and I know you've talked to policymakers as well. What what's holding us back? Why are we still so far behind on the workforce shortage?
Brian Huff (11:24)
Well, it's because we dug such a hole over the last fifty years. I'd not say I didn't have good intentions behind it, but what we're seeing now from, you know, everybody has to go to college. And that was the goal. And you saw a lot of these that whole system just thin out vocational programs at their schools, the trades at their schools. And they really marginalized it as kind of like a consolation prize. Well, if you can't go to college, maybe you should do this over here.
And it was always a second tier option. And I think that kind of PR, that kind of connotation attached to it over the last four, you know, 40 to 50 years has really just dug us into this hole. And the only way it's going to get us out of it is to change at a minimum, we got to change the messaging. But we also structurally could really do some things. You know, what's interesting is Gen Z, they're coming about this on their own.
You know, I saw where the Wall Street Journal called Gen Z, the Tool Belt Generation. They haven't said that about any generation, right? And it's not because the messaging from the K-12 public education system changed. It's because they're looking ahead to the future and they're seeing the trades as a safe haven for work. One survey that they had was the number one factor with Gen Z in choosing a career path was job security. They were concerned about AI replacing their career path.
And so they're looking to the trades again as a safe haven against that. AI is going to be a tool in the hands of the tradesperson, but it's not going to replace the tradesperson. Matter of fact, AI is going to create jobs for the tradesperson, as we've been mentioning. It's not only going to eliminate, but it's actually and it's creating high-paying jobs for people with of with these skills.
Yeah, I know that I think they were being maybe a little flippant, but you know, one of the posts I saw on X was the next class of millionaires were going to be plumbers, electricians, and welders because there's so much need that's coming. And besides the AI well workforce, you just look at shipbuilding. The naval secretary, John Phelan, he said that 25% of that workforce is set to retire at five years. He said they need 250,000 skilled workers.
To to meet the demands, to meet this challenge that we've got. And then and it and of course when you couple the AI arms race in there, like you said, we're at a we're at a moment in history where we need to meet this. And again, we can't be second place in it. We have to win this. We don't even want to live in a world where America is second place, and that'd be a scary place to be in.
Jason Altmire (14:03)
What can these professions make? So they let's say they graduate from your school or whatever, a trade school, community college, an apprenticeship, union affiliate, whatever it might be, somebody enters the profession, they become an electrician, they become a plumber, HVAC tech, go work on a project involving a data center somewhere in the country. What can they realistically expect to make right out of school? And then what would be their progression over time?
Brian Huff (14:32)
Right out of school, I would say safely in the 70 to 90k a year range. Over time, it could be upwards of 150 or even more. But you know, we don't know, you know, when the bidding war is gonna start when they everybody needs these workers. And so right now, the way it is, easily, and especially when you factor in overtime. But you know, whether it's union or non-union, there's gonna be very good pay for all the trades.
And again, but that's just the data centers. You know, you're talking about whether it's in transportation or healthcare, all the construction that they're that's still needed around those sectors and everything else that we do here. And the ROI is so great. You know, like at our school, our programs are usually less than nine months. Some of them are even shorter than that. But our average student loan debt is anywhere from maybe nine to eleven thousand. Well, that's thirty to forty under traditional college, and that's being kind.
Now I know they've spent more time there, but we're saving them on the time commitment. We're saving them obviously on their ⁓ their student debt, and they can get out ⁓ working and get it, you know, get there in a hurry. But the pay is gonna really be good. And I mean, you've seen posts all over. I know ⁓ it's I I've seen pay stubs that are 3,500 a week, you know, but you can also see somebody who's making $1,500 a week. That's still really good. Making a thousand a week is good, you know. So
But but people are gonna really be able to definitely see the pay increase because the shortage is gonna be so great. You know, I know you follow you you Mike Rowe's a huge proponent of course of the trades. And I mean he said all kinds of things and it's always great listening to him. But one thing he said is, okay, we got all this work and that's great, but who's gonna do it? Where are we gonna get all the people to handle this tsunami of work that's coming and that has to be done? So I it's gonna have to start.
Just like they wanted to get everybody into college, they really need to really push the trades because it's just it's in our national interest and they're good paying jobs and they've got great longevity.
Jason Altmire (16:37)
Yeah, there there's a national initiative to reduce the stigma that has in the past gone along with some of these careers, the view that somehow if you go into a skilled trade, you've taken the lesser path or that a trade school was reserved for people who couldn't cut it in college, you know, with kind of a second choice plan B.
But that is clearly not the case. These these are high paying jobs where people can make a good living and do enjoyable and meaningful work and make a difference for the country. These are the jobs that are growing. You touched on it a little bit, but I I want to return just to clarify for the audience. How long are these programs, let's say electrician, HVAC, and plumber, you know, there's an opportunity cost to go into a four-year college and you're giving up.
income over that time and the time commitment. So if somebody's out there thinking about what they're going to do and they're thinking about the trades, what's the time commitment to complete the program and then what w what would be the cost?
Brian Huff (17:41)
The time commitment would be 30 weeks to 36 weeks long. ⁓ we do have a welding program. It's 40 weeks long. And the cost would be anywhere from 18,000 to I've the 40 week welding course is around 23,000. So they're all in that range. But that's what they would be looking at. We go four days a week and we've we we went to that model so people can have three days a week to work. A lot of folks that
come to us, they're working other jobs and things like that. And it just makes it easier to have a job to do that. But we have found that's been a more comfortable way because it's pretty intense. It's a lot. You're teaching a lot in a short amount of time. But that's what it would look like. And like in those programs, we there's no gen eds. It's all you're just learning the skill. Everything you're doing, you know, especially in the welding. The welding is an hour, a classroom a day and the rest, you know, the only way you can learn that is to do it.
You've got to be under the hood and be in the booth doing it. but all all of our programs are very hands-on. And we work with, you know, as we work with employers. We call them program advisory committees. And we have employers on those and they help us develop the programs. And we really stay up with that because their demands can change. Different parts of the country may require different processes in heating and air. different manufacturers, they're they require different welding processes. You know, maybe somebody wants somebody to have.
Have more ⁓ commercial experience in electrical than residential. So, but we're nimble enough that we can move and meet those demands of the employers.
Jason Altmire (19:16)
What is the role of employers in working with trade schools in in identifying what the needs are, what the most useful skills and attributes for a graduate? We hear that the workforce shortage is not a problem with the number of applicants. It's a problem with the quality and the experience of the applicants. The employers can't find qualified workers. So how do you work with employers to make sure that you are training?
Future workers with exactly what's needed in the workforce.
Brian Huff (19:50)
Well, we stay in very close contact with them. And and again, one way is through those program advisory committee, but also through our job placement program. So we're getting feedback from them all the time. And ⁓ no, I hear it and look at, I mean, even everybody w would always wish there was maybe this or that or but by and large, you know, they're happy with getting somebody who's job ready, who's got the entry level skills to to go and we try to match the student up with the right employer.
I think that has a lot to do with it as well. But I guess the shortest answer to that is just be in close communication with them and actually partner with them. I mean, we look at it as a partnership with our local employers and anybody that we work with. Look at the main thing, especially in career education, is the job. The greatest measuring stick of your program is did your students get a job? And so that's you know.
We that's been our bread and butter since day one. The only reason we're even around is because of job placement. When we started the welding school, we had a very simple mission. We wanted to teach people how to do what we knew how to do, and then we were gonna get them a job where we used to work at and places like that. And that was the whole it was just that raw. And we did that. It's you know, a lot of times you get into an endeavor and it's never like you think it's gonna be. That was one part that was exactly what we wanted to do in the beginning and it worked. And
You know, as you know it, when you first start a school, you don't have financial aid. You've got to survive for two years before you can even apply for accreditation. That takes another two years, two and a half years. You're four and a half years into it before you ever see any kind of financial aid if you survive it. So how we survived is the word got out with the employment agencies and the counties that were around us then that we were ex-welders, we were teaching people how to weld and we were getting them a job. And so they started sending us people, and that's what made us.
And we learned right then that it's all about getting in the job. We knew exactly what they wanted. And so that we've really tried to carry that on over the last 30 years. And we take the job placement aspect of it very serious.
Jason Altmire (21:57)
I think to close, I would ask, do you feel with so much advocacy and you talk about this in all kinds of forums? You've been on the T V shows and and in the media, ⁓ do you feel like it's making a difference? Do you see noticeable improvement a as ⁓ the country continues to face these shortages?
Brian Huff (22:17)
I see improvement in the acceptance of the trades and people embracing the trades. I think there still has to be some selling maybe to the parent class, you know, or maybe a little bit, you know, beyond that. But I think the the youth that that age group 30 and under, I think that their eyes are wide open about it. And I really feel like there's a lot more the trades have a lot more favorability. And I really, you know, that's refreshing to see. And
We look forward to continue to grow. And, you know, another good point on this is there's not a better way to build the middle class. All this work we're talking about, you know, these are good paying jobs that are going to be around. And if you know, if you look around, the trades are very replacement resistant and they're very recession resistant. They're usually the last to go. I think people are waking up to that. And it's again, it's refreshing to see. ⁓ and especially when you hear things like Gen Z being called the tool belt generation, I think that's very favorable.
I just don't know. It's hard to take all that machinery that's been put in place for 50 years and tell it to change in the education system. But, you know, like you said, they they rose to the occasion during the Eisenhower years, and we're facing another moment like that, and we got to decide. And they should do that. You know, here's another thing that Germany does. They don't elevate one career path over another. A doctor and a welder, they revere the trades. And so we kind of elevated career paths.
One past another. I it should be communicated to the youth that when they're in school, hey, did you know you could be a machinist? Wow, that could be you. Not, ⁓ gee, you couldn't do this. Maybe you need to be a machinist over it. Right. We've really got to just totally change that and get the parents on board and get them into it. And I think that we can get the numbers that we need, but it's going to take a monumental effort like that.
Jason Altmire (24:09)
If somebody wanted to get in touch with you to learn more about Midwest Technical Institute, Delta Technical College, or just talk about these workforce development issues, how would they find you?
Brian Huff (24:20)
They can just go to midwesttech.edu and everything they want will be right there. From admissions to staff to, you know, trying to to make contact with us. They can do it all through that, through our website.
Jason Altmire (24:34)
Our guest today has been Brian Huff, CEO of Midwest Technical Institute. Brian, thank you for being with us.
Brian Huff (24:41)
Hey, thanks for having me. Really enjoyed it.
Jason Altmire (24:46)
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Career Education Report. Subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, visit our website at career.org and follow us on Twitter @CECUED. That's at C E C U E D. Thank you for listening.